BREAK DOWN NIGERIA INTO 6! — CHIEF I.D. NWOGA *EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW*

....NATIONAL CONFAB, SOUTH-EAST HAS NOT FIELDED ITS BEST

......APC CANNOT STOP PDP IN 2015

21-03-2014

Octogenarian elder statesman Chief Innocent Diala Nwoga sat down with our Editors for an exclusive interview in which he bared his mind on so many issues bordering on Nigeria in general and Imo State in particular. With a strong voice and sharp wit that belie 

his age, the former Minister and Party Chairman pulled no punches as he tackled issues head-on. This is one interview you would love to keep for the archives. Enjoy reading!

Nigerian Hotline Newspaper: Sir, we would not ask you to introduce yourself because you are definitely well known in Imo State, Nigeria and beyond but we would like to start on a lighter and personal note. We understand you would soon be celebrating the 50^th anniversary of you wedding, making it your Golden Jubilee. How does it feel being married to the same woman for 50 years now and counting?

Chief I. D. Nwoga: I will be frank with you, it has been absolutely delightful. I have had a very good marriage, a peaceful marriage, a very good partner. It has always been peaceful in my house, I am always glad to go home to meet my wife. It has not changed from how it was from the beginning, of course, it has mellowed but it has not changed essentially and I regard myself as really lucky to have that privilege.

NHN: What has been the highlight of this marriage? What are those moments that make you feel fulfilled in the marriage, those moments you wish would never stop?

Nwoga: I don’t know whether I would say they shouldn’t stop (laughs) but the thing is that the birth of a child in a marriage is always a highlight and with the birth of each child a glow is added to the marriage. A friend of mine told me something when I was getting married, he said “Look, your wife is very pretty but I want to advise you that you will only be looking at her for only two weeks or so and after that there would be days you won’t even look in her face. You just want to know whether your food is ready, whether your water is hot and whether your home is comfortable”. I understood that what he was actually telling me is that it transits from the starry-eyed period into a more stable period of comfort and serenity, if you are lucky. If you are unlucky it transits into storms, ups and downs. I have really seen people suffer in marriage, active suffering in marriage. I have always thanked my stars that I didn’t have to go through that in my marriage. Though there have been ups and downs in my own marriage I regard them as inconsequential. We have rather concentrated on enjoying and enduring together common tribulations that assail people’s lives: deaths, misfortunes that come ones way either singly or collectively. The good luck is that we have been able to tackle each episode together.

NHN: Well, then, I suppose it would not be out of place to wish you another 50 years ahead…..

Nwoga: (cuts in) Well I would rather take that as a good wish (laughs heartily) whether I believe that or not is a different matter (laughs).

NHN: But seriously, you are a very important person in Nigeria and I cannot have an opportunity of a sit-down with you without taking you up on a few topical issues concerning the country. You have been a public servant, a minister, a politician, a national opinion leader and now an elder statesman, would I be right to think that you have retired from all those things we have known you for or are you semi-retired, semi-active or something else? What stage of life can we say you are at now?

Nwoga: Speaking for myself, I would say I have retired but it is difficult to speak for other politicians who come at you, who see you as a resource material, perhaps, who see you as someone who can facilitate one thing or another. So, while I remain retired by my own decision, I have not escaped from political activity. I think it is the lot of all politicians. Once you withdraw from the service you never return, in politics you can’t withdraw totally. As you are leaving they are dragging you back and you find that total retirement doesn’t happen.

NHN: Even though you have been quite politically active since you stepped down as Imo State Chairman of PDP it appears you have not been playing any other active role either at the political party or governmental level. Is it as a result of personal choice or, maybe, somehow you have been side-lined?

Nwoga: Actually, after I had served as the Chairman of the party and we were lucky enough to launch Imo State into PDP, PDP won the state in our time. I deliberately decided to withdraw due to experiences I had at that time which did not seem to me as something I want to repeat.

NHN: Maybe you could share some of these experiences.

Nwoga: You know, a situation in which you won the elections, you led the party to victory. When it came to the “sharing of the booty”, if I may put it that way. You know, the sharing of appointments and so on, they found reasons why you shouldn’t be there at all! But it wasn’t even that because before I joined politics I had got to the top of my career and life, it wasn’t that. It was because the human beings you thought you knew and worked with turned into something different! In their single-minded quest for political booty they were no longer attractive to work with so, I thought that for my sanity and to retain my sense of dignity I should stay out of it. That is why I stayed out of it for quite a while until I found that the party was in trouble, even the government at the time was in trouble and I felt I could make a difference if I stepped in to help them, which I did once, and I did twice and a third time when things were going wrong. As for being in government, I have a temperament for building, erecting structures for administration but I don’t have the temperament for scrambling for positions. Hence in the federal circle where I am ordinarily entitled, by right, to get an appointment, haven been a state Chairman of the party, when none was coming I didn’t bother. But there are those who would want to get appointments by all means even though they were not a part of the machine that made the party win. I probably lack what is required to get jobs at the federal level (laughs).

NHN: You lack it in what sense?

Nwoga: I wouldn’t compromise my principles! I wouldn’t forgo my dignity simply because I am seeking for appointments.

NHN: From the foregoing, would I be right to conclude that you were disappointed with then Governor Achike Udenwa? Probably he turned against what you expected, not necessarily on a personal level but, probably in terms of policy and manifesto which you expected that your party and the governor would supervise together. Do you think he derailed at some point……….?

Nwoga: (Cuts in) Quite frankly, as I steam on to my Golden Jubilee I don’t  want to get into any controversy at this time, I wouldn’t want to talk about anybody’s government at this time, whether they  got it right or wrong. I will make general statements mostly. Udenwa is a friend of mine and I wouldn’t want to put him in any discomfiture discussing his government.

NHN: Okay, I understand you would like to play the role of a statesman and father of all but I am sure in times like this people would love to hear you speak and hear what you have to say. However, let me say that I am surprised to be here with you at this particular moment when I know that the National Conference just kicked off. I would have thought that you would have been at the top of the list of eminent Nigerians who are at that Conference. How come you are not there? Did you decline?

Nwoga: No. I wasn’t asked and I didn’t ask to go. Nobody suggested that I should go. There were enough people wanting it for those who didn’t ask to go to be missed out. I didn’t ask for it but if I had been nominated I would have gone but I wasn’t asked to go, not by the nominating bodies, so I am quite content listening to what they are saying. We have made our contributions at the South-East Council of Elders. We have had several meetings with Ohaneze and some other leaders so that those who would be representing us would be brought to the forum and be advised on what is best for Ndigbo. That is as far as I would go. We joined in this conversation and we expect that haven talked about it and developing a Memorandum we have made our own input.

NHN: From your activities at the South-East Council of Elders what would you say is the Agenda Ndigbo are bringing to the table? What are those things Ndigbo want discussed there?

Nwoga: Our position is informed by our experience in the Federation. In the early 1960s the Eastern Region, led then by the NCNC and Dr Michael Okpara and Azikiwe before him, was described as the fastest growing economy in Africa because of the dynamism of that government and the fact that there was a total mobilization of that area for development. After the war there has been a slump and we have never recovered but our people have not lost their enterprising spirit, they have not lost their capacity for collective engagement. So, it is our view that if Ndigbo are put together in a government and given the commensurate finances and responsibilities to run the affairs of this area, and if you do as well to the other geopolitical zones, the dynamism of the people will begin to manifest. But now it cannot manifest itself, the states are too small. The money they get cannot solve their purposes and they do not have enough money to mount impressive or satisfactory programmes that would transform their areas. For example, the Onitsha-Enugu-Aba-Port Harcourt Road passes through the South-East and you see that it has been under very poor maintenance since it was first opened in the late 1970s and it is a crying shame. The Federal Government might want to show concern but there is no immediacy of concern, that is, they are not there to feel it, they are far away. Whereas the people who live there, if you give them the money they will make sure that the road is built because it is for their convenience. You can multiply this kind of experience, the immediacy of concern around the country. I, personally, would support the view that the geopolitical zones be constituted into federating units, that way each people would have their fate in their own hands. They would have the resources with which to transform their fate and carry out development. Those areas that have the dynamic and creative spirit to develop will develop while those who don’t will not develop whereas now everyone is being dragged down because the Federal Government insists on governing Nigeria in detail. There is no Nigerian that has been born that can govern Nigeria in detail, not now. It must be by spreading of responsibilities and the best unit for the discharge of these responsibilities and the transformation of the regions would be these (geopolitical) zones and they may be adjusted a little to suit to purpose. So, our people have this ability to act and move themselves forward within the unit of their local action so that is one principal proposal we have recommended. Let each zone appropriate their resources, Federal Government reduce your concerns to the Military, the currency, Foreign Affairs, Weights and Measures, and things like that but the developmental activities and responsibilities for the country should pass on to these units, if we do so this country would be transformed within a short time.

NHN: So sir, in effect what you are saying is that the position of Ndigbo is that we should return to some form of regionalism, not necessarily Confederation but a Federation with bigger federating units created out of collapsing the current states into larger structures along the lines of the geopolitical zones.

Nwoga: Right! You have summarised it very well. Now, we try to avoid stigmatising this thing, labelling it whether it is Confederation or something else. We will call it true Federalism with bigger and more viable federating units.

NHN: Sir, do you think the Confab is a good idea and do you think the timing is right especially considering that 2015 is around the corner?

Nwoga: Let me tell you something; it is always right to talk, to try and develop a meeting of the minds especially in a very contentious environment such as Nigeria. You just keep talking; when you are taking you are not fighting. It is only when you stop talking that you can start fighting. I don’t care about timing. I mean, if it finishes within three months and they do the necessary things within the next few months we may have a new and different constitution, but if they don’t then they (should) package the report and leave it for the next government to attend to. Those who are worried about the timing, those who are criticising him (President Goodluck Jonathan) for doing what they asked him to do, the timing doesn’t matter. Instead of planning how to grab power everybody should go and talk about how to rearrange the country so that it will become a workable entity. That is the sensible thing to do, not to begin to talk about the timing of the conference. I don’t care if there are political undertones, anyway, there is nothing done now that has no political content, but the truth remains that as long as you are talking you are not fighting. Talking is constructive if it is done by reasonable people. So it is a very good idea.

NHN: Let me backtrack a little to the South-East Position. Do you think, pardon the expression, that the South-East has presented it first eleven for the National Conference and in general do you think the men and women there at the conference are the best eleven Nigeria can put forward?

Nwoga: I don’t like criticising the ability of other people but let me ask you, have Ndigbo ever put forward their best eleven? They don’t know how to do it, they are temperamentally impaired in that regard. Those who grab all the time and who want to grab they won’t…….. the people who are capable don’t grab, they wait and if they are called upon then they go. Some of the nominations are funny but they depict our own character also.

NHN: Sir, the Federal Government has pinpointed some no-go-areas, chief of which is any discussions about the continuous existence and unity of Nigeria. Without being specific to that alone, do you think it is proper for the Federal Government to impose no-go-areas or do you think the conference should be all-encompassing and have the right to talk about any and everything?

Nwoga: Let me tell you the truth, this matter as far as I can see, it is very natural for the Federal Government to identify or propose no-go-areas. Nobody presides over the dissolution of his own kingdom. For the moment they are in control of the Federal apparatus and they are administering the Federation so it is not natural for the President to tell them to go and see whether we should remain together or not. But if I were a member of that body I would talk about anything I want to talk about irrespective of proposals on no-go-areas. This is a free country, you have been told to go and talk about the country, you go there and say what you want to say! Whereas they may set no-go-areas I expect the participants to discuss the structure of the country as freely as they want to. It would make an impact, whatever it is. Mind you, I don’t think we should go ahead and dismember the country but we should give the structure of the country a very seasoned consideration, there must be something that can be said about how the country has fared with this present structure and association.  

NHN: Ok sir. Still talking about Nigeria in general the 2015 elections are less than a few months away, what is your assessment of the build up to the 2015 elections. With your experience and wisdom, as you look at it, do you think the signs bode well for the country?

Nwoga: As an elder in this country, I am worried, I am a worried man. And I observe a lot of irresponsibility in the conduct of the politicians in the country. They are not afraid of overheating the polity, even people you would think should be responsible, they are continually sabre-rattling, threatening and in some cases destabilising. And you are never sure now whether they mean what they say or whether they are just making noise and say whatever they like, this is the problem. Responsible politicians should speak responsibly and not say things that are untrue and not refuse to recognise facts as they exist but I really and sincerely hope…….. and anyway, this conference is a damper, a little damper. Everybody is now talking about the conference and are facing the discussion at the conference and I hope you reporters would begin to report them and reduce the attention given to the political clamour because nobody can tell for sure whether the Boko Haram issue is really coming from some people outside, that there is no internal support for it. And this unbridled effort to get rid of the president, Jonathan, next year…… I call it unbridled because they don’t seem to be pulling any punches. It is unhealthy the way it has been drummed up, the way they have pursued it with such acrimony, unprecedented gusto and yet, if you are sitting outside and watching you would have said this chap has been trying to do something in these past four years. He has mounted different policies, some of them are working and sadly for example, the most difficult area is the power sector and yet he has set up structures that if we are at all rational, those structures would in the end solve our problems. But instead of recognising something like that happening they continue to accuse him as if he did nothing at all. To govern a country you need some time, especially if you have a programme, four years is a very short time in the life of a state, they have not even allowed him to do three years before wanting to excavate him and get rid of him from there where as if he finishes the programmes he is mounting and does another four years of consolidation you won’t have to ask him to go, he must go! That way there won’t be any tension, unnecessary tension in the country. That’s why you asked the question. Why can’t they wait for another four years and build up whatever they like and then go for power?

NHN: Do you think the opposition are more prepared for 2015 than they have been for previous elections, especially considering the emergence of the APC from a coalition of the three main opposition parties we had before? Do you think that in reality PDP now stands a greater risk of losing power to the opposition?

Nwoga: well, you can start by examining the personalities and character traits of the people who are there. There are such powerful people there that you wonder if they would be able to get along without personality frictions and clashes. I have been told that in a place like Adamawa (Murtala) Nyako and his newfound friends have started quarrelling and that is a condition that could be multiplied. I think potentially, looking at their huge size, they would pose a potential threat to PDP but it is only a tree that you would tell that you would be cutting it down and it still stands there. I think PDP needs to work hard to consolidate what it has now. Those troublemakers are still in PDP but it is only if they don’t learn that the party would run into serious problems.

Editor's note: (To be concluded next week)

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